Feeling Drained? How to Restore Your Emotional Energy

You don't need garlic or sunlight to protect yourself against vampires -- energy vampires -- that seem to leave some people exhausted and overwhelmed. David Pfaff, Ph.D., clinical mental health therapist with the School of Health Professions Clinical Mental Health Counseling program, is our expert for this episode. He shares with us how we can identify and set boundaries with these relationships, practice mindfulness techniques to manage emotional reactions and treat ourselves with compassion in order to slay those energy draining situations. He also gives us tips on how we can be a bit more self-aware and avoid draining other people's energy.

Transcript

Melissa Whitfield  0:10 
Hello and welcome back to Texas Tech Health Check from Texas Tech University Health Science Center. I'm your host, Melissa Whitfield. We want you to get healthy and stay healthy with help from evidence based advice from our physicians, healthcare providers and researchers. Do you sometimes feel exhausted and overwhelmed when you're around certain people? Some of us refer to them as energy vampires, because they drain our emotional energy. You don't need garlic or daylight to protect yourself, though, you just need some tips from our expert for this episode, Dr David Pfaff, psychotherapist with the School of Health Professions Clinical Mental Health Counseling program. Dr Pfaff describes what happens when we're in a situation that leaves us emotionally exhausted. He explains how we can identify those relationships and how we can practice mindfulness to build resilience and to keep ourselves from sucking someone else's energy.

Melissa Whitfield  1:11 
Dr Pfaff, welcome to our podcast.

Dr. David Pfaff  1:29 
Thank you.

Melissa Whitfield  1:29 
How are you doing today?

Dr. David Pfaff  1:31 
I'm doing well, it's a pleasure. It's it's a jam packed week with convocation, but good problem to have, though I love doing stuff like this, and I love being here on campus.

Melissa Whitfield  1:39 
Well, thank you for being able to squeeze us in and coming on our podcast.

Dr. David Pfaff  1:44 
It's my honor and my privilege. Honestly, I love this stuff. I really do.

Melissa Whitfield  1:48 
Well, can you tell us a little bit about yourself, your expertise and what you do here at the Health Sciences Center?

Dr. David Pfaff  1:55 
Absolutely. And as I was just saying, I love this stuff. I'm passionate about mental wellness, mental health, relationships, emotions, education, that's why I say I chose professions. I got a PhD, so I got a lot of student loans I'll never be able to repay because I'm passionate about mental health and education, and so I'm a clinical mental health therapist in the state of Oklahoma, and I'm also licensed here in Texas. I see clients, a small amount of clients, so I'm still involved clinically, and I'm also part of the full time faculty here at TTUHSC in the clinical mental health counseling program. So I get to do both. I get to practice as a mental health clinician, and I get to teach it. So I get to live, breathe and eat mental health and wellness. So I love I can go home hating it at night, but I'm gonna wake up in the morning and want more. And I've done several podcasts. I've done lectures, workshops, I've been published on the topic of emotions and relationships and trauma and mindfulness. So really looking forward to this topic today.

Melissa Whitfield  2:51 
Well, we're very excited to have you and to have you talk about this topic, which is what we sort of started as energy vampires. But this comes as a background for me being a receptionist and feeling drained at the end of the day after talking to some people. But is it just my imagination, or are there some people who, after being with them for a while, sort of just leave us exhausted, something like vampires, but energy draining or Emotional Vampires? What are some characteristics or behaviors of someone like that.

Dr. David Pfaff  3:23 
I think it's just your imagination, so, are we done. No, I'm kidding. No, it's not your imagination. No, this, yeah, no. I think all of us have experienced this and will experience this. And it's funny when I hear the term energy vampire, I think about that show What We Do in the Shadows on FX and Colin Robinson, who's an energy vampire. And you know, he goes around and in his office space in other areas, and he'll talk to people about the most mundane things, and it's about him, him, him, me, me, me, me. And you can watch his eyes light up as people just kind of slowly drain and then fall asleep. So that's what I think about. And I also know it's a very important topic. It's a very it's a very it's really out there. A lot of people are talking about it right now, but it's important to know it's when we say energy vampire, energy drainer, energy sucker, any number of things. It's metaphoric. There's not Colin Robinsons running around out there just feeding off our energy, and they don't need any other food or water or anything like that. But, but it is a metaphor for when we find ourselves in situations with folks that we feel drained, we feel exhausted, we feel just blah or anxious, or any number of things. And something I point out when we talk about what this looks like or the characteristics is, I really encourage people to look at it as we're looking at characteristics and signs of cycles, of interactions, of relationships, because if we just look at it as this person's an energy vampire, energy drainer, we're going to get into the blame cycle. We're going to get in the blame game, and we're just, we're in effect, just saying, well, I can't do anything about it. This person's just an energy vampire, and they're going to come and Colin Robinson me and suck out all my energy, and then I'm done. No, it's a cycle. And by looking at it that way and looking at these characteristics of these cycles, we're setting us up for later on, for what can I do about it, to get out of the cycle and take my power back and so long winded answer for these are cycles that it's the person that you're talking with, interacting in a relationship with. It's It's me, me, me, me, me, it's they come and they talk to you, and it's all about me, and it can be anywhere on a spectrum from very braggadocios very like me. Me. My life is amazing. My life is incredible. I accomplished all this stuff. My kids are perfect. It's almost like they're just reading off their LinkedIn profile and their Facebook profile to you and just talking to you about it, right? And while that happens, I think more often, though, we experience the energy vampirism or the draining from the other end of the spectrum, where folks maybe are very emotionally reactive. They're having a hard time. They're they're talking about traumas and crisis. They're always seeming in crisis, or the world is unfair, a lot of negativity, just, just a lot of complaining, and they're trying to control situations, maybe they're trying to get attention. And so I think it's important too that when we find ourselves in these cycles and we're like, man, this is a situation where it's just me, me, me, me, it's all about this other person, I'm feeling drained also remembering that at the end of the day, we all got needs, we all got wants. We all want to feel connected, bonded, a part of something purposeful, be validated, be accepted. And so if we look at the function context, that's probably what this person's wanting. They're wanting to feel purposeful, feel supported, feel like their hurts matter, their emotions matter, and maybe they're having a really hard time meeting their other needs. And so now you're in the crosshairs, or you happen to walk by their desk in class or at work or something, and so it's recognizing this is a cycle that I can break out of, and this person at the end of the day, they're just trying to meet their needs, trying to feel connected.

Melissa Whitfield  6:49 
How can we identify those situations or that we're stuck in a cycle, and how can we deal with it? Because sometimes we have to be in these types of situations that I said my job as a receptionist, I couldn't escape, or someone might just be having a bad day.

Dr. David Pfaff  7:07 
It starts with us. I really am a big believer in presence and mindfulness and being in touch and being present and engaged in the interaction. Because what's the last thing you want to do when you're feeling that vampiric cycle, that draining cycle, we're feeling a lot of our own emotions, right? We're feeling anxious, we're feeling stressed, frustrated, bored, tired, any number of things, and we start to get in in our own heads and check out. And when is this going to end? I can't believe this is all about this person, and we're not present, we're not we're not active and engaged. But when we're present and active and engaged and aware of our emotions, it's when we're feeling anxiety and stress and frustration and tired and all those things, those emotions are happening for us. Oftentimes we think these interactions happen to us. It's just oh God, and all this things happening that I'm overwhelmed. But no, the emotions and discomfort and judgments that we feel during these interactions are trying to help us. You know, uncomfortable emotions or nature's alarm bells, something's wrong, and you need to do something about it. And so we need to be present and mindful, and that's what's going to tell us. Something's off here, something's not, not quite working out, right? And I think your next part of your question is, what do we do about it? Or so we listen to our emotions and we have we they happen for us, as opposed to to us, I think, first and foremost. And I'm really going to build this, this one up here, I'm really going to romanticize this next thing, because a former supervisor of mine said this next thing I'm going to bring up is a superpower. And it is. It's boundaries, and it's a superpower because it's one of the harder things to do in an act sometimes, because boundaries, think about it takes assertiveness, takes presence. You're not just setting the boundary, but you're maintaining the boundary. We might feel obligated to be in this vampiric cycle, this draining cycle, but we need to set boundaries, and we can do so in a way that is polite, that is caring, that is also assert. And again, assertive is not aggression. We think assertiveness means aggression. No assertive means you're just being upfront. You're being genuine and congruent, you're being direct. And so we politely set these clear boundaries, we limit. And also, know, I think one of the other barriers with boundaries is folks think, and they'll come say, me to say, Dave, I set a boundary and it didn't work. Like, well, why didn't it work? Well, because the person didn't change, I'm like, well, that's your problem. Boundaries aren't meant to change people. Boundaries are about insulating ourselves and protecting ourselves, ultimately. So we set boundaries and reassert boundaries so that we can create that space. We're not trying to change them. We're trying to break the cycle. We're trying to break the interaction. Some specific boundaries we could set, you know, we could set boundaries around time. We can limit the amount of time that we're in these interactions. We can create space, you know, physically and metaphorically. We can redirect the conversation. You know, there's some conversational tools we can do of well, now that sounds very difficult for you, yeah, tell me about some hopeful things happening in your life, or tell me about some good things happening. We can just flat out say, no. No is a sentence. And the other thing about boundaries is you don't have to justify them. You don't have to sell them. You're not selling people used cars here. What you're doing is, is you're assertively saying, hey, this sounds very difficult for you. I need to go do something else right now, or I'm feeling very overwhelmed right now. I need some space. I need to step out, and you don't have to justify it. You don't have to sell it. And I know we feel obligated to, because I think some of the problems we have is we feel like we have to manage the other person's emotions. We got to fix them. We're obligated, and we're not, because a lot of times their own shame kicks in, and it's just realizing, well, that's my own shame, so setting boundaries around it's their feelings. And I got my feelings. I need to know where my feelings end and the other person's begins. And so I'm not trying to control them, maybe like they're trying to control me. And so set the boundary, be clear, trying to stay emotionally neutral as well, not getting sucked into the back and forth, not the emotional reactivity. If they're very reactive and they're very angry or sad or, you know, I can still maintain and know where my feelings end and theirs begins. And stay calm and stay patient and even say, you know, telling them, you know, I could see you're very upset, or life seems very hard right now. Have you thought about talking to a counselor? Send them our way like, you know, that's why I got all the hours of training and the student loans. I got the training on this kind of stuff. Please send us referrals. But you don't have to fix it, and it's not your responsibility to fix it. And then something else we can do is practice our own emotional regulation techniques. Because, again, we need to consider what's keeping me in this cycle. Because at the very extreme, I could get up and walk away at any point, you know, I can hang up the phone, I can get off social media. I don't have to be a part of this, but we need to be aware of and regulate our own emotions, our own shame, our own guilt, our own frustration, our own sadness, lean into our own relationships as well. Reflect on these things and really, really not shame ourselves into staying in these cycles. You know, I say that. You know, shame can be a very, very big part of this, and just being being aware of that and present with that, and working on our own issues that might keep us in the cycles. I hope that answers your question. It's very long winded.

Melissa Whitfield  12:11 
Many of our relationships are online as well. Does this kind of behavior situation happen online?

Dr. David Pfaff  12:19 
Absolutely, I mean absolutely, in in similar ways, in very different ways. You know, talk talking about boundaries. The thing about online, it's the boundaries get even more blurry with texting, even as well. So with texting and social media and messaging apps, there's this misnomer that I'm available to you 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Oh, it's Christmas. Who cares? You know, I can still message you. So again, boundaries get more difficult, get more blurry, the ideas of accessibility and so when it does happen, too, can be very scary, because it's one thing when someone is talking about a lot of negative things and hurt feelings and difficulties in person, when we can see them. When I you know, I can see body language and I can see what's going on the animation. But if they're sending cryptic text text messages or Facebook messages or status updates that are talking about some very dark feelings, even suggesting that they could be a danger to themselves or others, that can be incredibly triggering as well. So social media just adds a whole nother layer to this thing. In some of the signs of that is, you know, the constant messaging, whether it's texting, whether it's it's through Facebook Messenger, I hear that exists, I guess, but, and it's also just that, that just emotional, just dumping them more and more more more more, and really things that, what am I supposed to do with this? And maybe even passive aggressive quips or guilt or shaming talking about crisis. And so I really think that the social media thing could almost be more triggering in some ways than the in person thing, because so much context gets lost in the written word.

Melissa Whitfield  13:58 
What communication techniques then do you recommend we use when around these interactions?

Dr. David Pfaff  14:04 
You know, we can. We can use similar things that I was talking about before. Some I forgot to mention before too, is we can also use body language when we're in person. I can use body language to show that I'm disengaging from the conversation that I'm you know, I can turn my body a certain way facial expressions. I can't do that online, of course, right? But what I can do I you know, I can't put on, do not disturb or mute when I'm in person, but I could do that when I'm online, in which I know that can be hard to do, but we can certainly do that. We can set expectations as well, you know, tell people, hey, I'm not checking messages this late at night, or get back to them the next day. Hey, I'm not available 24/7. Just being, being transparent with folks about the expectations and when you're available in what you're not, but also remembering if I read that status update, if I, if I read those messages with those those dark emotions, it's, it's not my job to fix it. And I can certainly say it sounds like you're having a hard time. Have you thought about talking to a counselor? Or is there someone I can contact for you that can help you with this directly? It's just not getting looped into that sense of obligation and shame. We can set, you know, friendly and firm boundary messages, and again, they can be short, they can be sweet. You don't have to rationalize it or justify it. You can say, this is the way it is. We can validate how they're feeling, and this is the way it is. I love fogging statements, too. I didn't bring that up. Fogging statements are just the idea of, I can validate how you feel, and then that's it. I can say it sounds like you're having a really difficult time, or if they don't like that, why? Why? Why won't you talk to me? I want you to do this. Sounds like you're very frustrated right now, and I'm sorry about that. And then I don't have to justify it I don't have to get into it. I can still validate them, but I don't have to get in to that tug of war. The shorter, the direct, oftentimes, oftentimes, the better. And just also recognizing my own polls and my own ties, even online, in those messages that are laced with guilt and shame, in trying to, you know, control the situation so and also, again, just recognize those batteries are for me. Unplugging is for me, even telling the person I'm going to unplug now, you know, if you need to talk, you know, I can contact someone else for you.

Melissa Whitfield  16:09 
What is the constant drain of energy due to our mental and our physical health in the short term and the long term?

Dr. David Pfaff  16:18 
That's that's another excellent question, because you said that you were a receptionist. I'm sure you probably felt some pretty uncomfortable feelings, right in that process. Maybe some anxiety?

Melissa Whitfield  16:30 
Yes.

Dr. David Pfaff  16:30 
Maybe some sense of obligation, frustration?

Melissa Whitfield  16:33 
Yes.

Dr. David Pfaff  16:34 
Any sadness about time lost?

Melissa Whitfield  16:36 
Absolutely and loss of I'm not sure about control, but you know, as a receptionist, you're low on the ladder, so you have to just kind of, you're at the mercy of whoever stops at the desk.

Dr. David Pfaff  16:47 
Feeling helpless, even feeling yeah, yeah, feeling even a little less. It can affect So yeah, those very things right there. It made it hard to engage sometimes, and concentrate, I'm guessing, too.

Melissa Whitfield  17:01 
Yes.

Dr. David Pfaff  16:57 
It can affect us cognitively, your ability to concentrate and focus on your job and affect you emotionally, because you're feeling these uncomfortable things and stress, it can affect us physically. Did you ever feel like physical tension?

Melissa Whitfield  17:09 
Absolutely.

Dr. David Pfaff  17:10 
Like, what'd you feel, if you don't mind me asking?

Melissa Whitfield  17:12 
Well, there was one person, this certain man, who would kind of leer and would just hang out a little too much and just made the hairs on the back of my head kind of like, just stand, like, like, just, he just gave me feeling of creepiness.

Dr. David Pfaff  17:26 
And I bet you felt that before knowing he's coming in. Yeah, yeah, exactly and so, yeah, it affects us physically. We feel tension, the stress, the anxiety, the build up to it before, during and after. And I wonder if you ever judged yourself afterward for the interactions. Why you didn't do certain things.

Melissa Whitfield  17:43 
I was asked why I didn't by my supervisors supervisor, why I was spending so much time with this person. I'm like, I can't get away.

Dr. David Pfaff  17:54 
Yeah, yeah, no, no, exactly. And so now, now they're judging me. Maybe I'm judging myself. So you're seeing it all intersects bio psychosocially. I have biological reactions. I have psychological and emotional, and I have physical and then oftentimes it ends with, why didn't I do this? Or I should have done that. But then, if we don't do that, then it's like, well, no, I should have listened to this person. And it spirals, it accumulates, it grows and it builds. I'm guessing, with that one person you were talking about, it probably started to feel worse and worse the longer it went.

Melissa Whitfield  18:26 
Yes, yes.

Dr. David Pfaff  18:27 
And so that's the thing. It gets to be cumulative. And the stress hormones start going, the cortisol we start feeling. Do you ever feel burned out?

Melissa Whitfield  18:37 
Oh, absolutely. Like every day.

Dr. David Pfaff  18:40 
You get the burnout setting in, the job starts to lose its luster, and then it's spice. Your emotional cup was probably a little more full when you went home, so you didn't have much, yeah, so you probably didn't have much tolerance for maybe some other things that can affect our outside relationships. So it does. It starts off as inconveniences and some hurts, and then it just with time, the more we internalize it, the more that we see the situation happens to us, as opposed to for us. It grows and grows and accumulates and it has an accumulative effect that culminates a lot of times in burnouts, hurting our relationships, hurting our emotional health, physical health, things like that. So that's why this is a very important topic, and really starting to manage and set these boundaries, because, yeah, we're gonna end up really hurting over time if we're if we're not putting it in check, if we're not mindful, if we're not managing it.

Melissa Whitfield  19:30 
So then how can we practice mindfulness to keep ourselves from feeling drained or being able to build resilience?

Dr. David Pfaff  19:38 
I love mindfulness first and foremost, I think it's, have you ever done much mindfulness?

Melissa Whitfield  19:44 
When I knit or crochet.

Dr. David Pfaff  19:45 
Okay, tell me about it yeah.

Melissa Whitfield  19:47 
I just, I do a lot of projects for charities. I do blankets and hats and scarves and just the counting kind of just puts me in a zone and just makes me chill.

Dr. David Pfaff  19:58 
Yeah. I'm in a zone, you're right. They call it flow and positive psychology, focused awareness. That's mindfulness, a great example, because we think of mindfulness as, like formal meditation, where I'm just trying to get calm and chill and okay, those are parts of it, but it's focused awareness, non judgmentally on the present, and even when we drift, we non judgmentally come back, right? It's almost like, how do I practice more of that, more that flow, that knitting that I'm doing in these situations with folks even leading up to it's like, could I practice some mindfulness before the guy with whose hair stands up on the back of my neck, you know? Could I practice some mindfulness before that? How do I see my thoughts and feelings for what they are and not attached, because oftentimes, and I've been hey, I'm in no ivory tower. I'm throwing stones in a glass house. I will think about something and feel anxious and ruminate and ruminate. Oh no, there's that person. I just knew it, and I'm priming the engine. What if I could practice mindfulness, focused awareness and non judgmentally, and let those feelings come and go so they don't build up and accumulate, and what if I'm aware of how I'm feeling when the guy with the hairs on the back of my neck shows up? You know? How do I stay in touch? So I can be active and engaged in that situation, so then I can start implementing my boundaries, so I can be more intentional, as opposed to reactive. So I'm not on my heels when he shows up. I'm on the balls of my feet, and I'm setting my boundaries, and I'm using my fogging statements, and I'm assertively saying that sounds really difficult. Is there something hopeful going on, or redirect the conversation in other ways, or or just flat out, say, hey, it sounds really hard right now. And maybe I'm not the person to really help or talk about this with, maybe, maybe go talk to a counselor or something like that. So mindfulness is a great way to prepare us for these situations. It's a great way when we're in the situation, because, again, it's not always formal meditation. Anything can be a mindfulness moment, knitting, eating. Listen, when's the last time you just sat there and mindfully ate something?

Melissa Whitfield  22:01 
It's been a while.

Dr. David Pfaff  22:02 
Me too. I ain't gonna lie. Driving, mindful driving. I was telling you I came back from Midland, I was I was road hypnotized, I can't tell you, and it's that's kind of scary now that I think I shouldn't brag about that, or mindfully listen to a song, mindfully had a conversation with another human being, and not thought about, what am I going to say next? What am I going to do next? Where am I going to go with this? So mindfulness is a great way to manage the situation, and then afterwards, when we're decompressing and really processing and reflecting on the situation, you said you judged yourself and you felt judged, I've been there too. What if I could mindfully look at that situation and think more about what would I like to do next time? What would I like to do a little bit differently, instead of treating myself with shame, treating myself with mindfulness and compassion? And how I want to continue to work on these situations and build these skills. So mindfulness is just a great general way to prepare to go through the situation and then also to decompress and learn from the situation, so we can continue to work on on breaking these cycles. And again, mindfulness, great research by shameless plug, great research, better than medication for depression and anxiety, according to some research, it's a process, not a place. You're not going to wake up one day and just be mindful and totally in the moment. You don't want to be anyway. It takes practice, and so I recommend to folks don't just wait till the vampiric cycle to try to engage mindfulness. Practice. It's a process. Get headspace. If you're a student, you get a cheaper subscription. Headspace has also got mindfulness shows on Netflix. Get the calm app. Practice mindful eating, mindful walking away from conversations. A lot of places have free mindfulness classes. So it's not just in this situation here, mindfulness in your life in general, you know they find that students have practiced mindfulness before tests actually score better than if they were just cramming. So just make mindfulness a part of your mindset. In fact, I should have said that early on, have a mindful mindset when you get in these vampiric cycles, in these draining cycles, and go into them with that non judgment for yourself, non judgment for the other person, and more about seeing this as a cycle, and how do I break the cycle? So I think mindfulness is just a great overall metaphor of what do we do about these vampiric cycles.

Melissa Whitfield  24:09 
So then, what can we do ourselves to keep from draining others?

Dr. David Pfaff  24:13 
Ooh, everything. I just said, just practice all those things yourself. No, it's not that easy. But yeah, I'm going to start off with mindfulness again, being mindful, being mindful and engaged in in the conversation. You know, I was, I was saying that we can use redirections, right? We can set boundaries. We can use nonverbal behaviors to tell someone that, you know, facial expressions, turning away to set up space. Being mindful if we're seeing those cues from other folks, being mindful of our own emotional regulation. You know, as I said, a lot of times, these vampiric cycles, these draining cycles, and the person that's the me, me, me, oftentimes, they're just trying to meet their needs, for connection, for bonding, for acceptance, for support, for soothing. How am I meeting my own needs for that. Just on a normal basis, because chances are, when they get in the vampiric cycle, things are probably built up and they're really just trying to control and get something. How am I meeting my needs, for identity, for validation, for acceptance, for relationships and attachment? Am I running on empty? Or how do I process my emotions? How do I regulate my emotions? What's my own emotional intelligence and maturity? So I think if we practice emotional intelligence, which is like self awareness, self regulation, awareness of other people's emotions and awareness of emotions in interactions, I think that's going to be a great buffer for us not being on the me, me, me, me, side of the vampiric cycle, watching those social cues, seeing how people react, being mindful of what we're sharing. It's not a good idea at work for me to go up and start telling someone about my childhood traumas or about I'm going through a divorce or that's just not a good place. It's just not a good context. So being mindful myself of what what I am sharing and what I'm giving, being mindful of of how much capacity the other person has. I think transparency is so important. You know, let's say I've tried to regulate something myself, my own and process my own emotions, but I'm really having a hard time, because we do need to reach out to people sometimes and do that. I mean, I'd be out of a job if that weren't the case. So reaching out to someone and and saying, hey, I've got this going on. I need a listening ear. I don't need you fix it. Just sit with me. Just sit with me and hear me out. Because how powerful is that? I don't know, have you ever just sat with someone and they listened to you, didn't tell you you were crazy, messed up, screwed up, effed up.

Melissa Whitfield  26:31 
Well, I had to explain to my husband to do that, because he would try to fix my problem, and I'd say, no, just I want you to listen to me. Just nod, and that'll be it then I I just need to get off my chest.

Dr. David Pfaff  26:43 
And that's emotional intelligence in about 10 seconds, right? That's beautiful. That, no, that's that's fantastic. You're transparent. See that right there.

Melissa Whitfield  26:50 
But it took us a while to get there.

Dr. David Pfaff  26:52 
It does. It's a process. Yes, it's a process. It's a practice. We're gonna mess up. But no, absolutely, it's being transparent with someone with what we need, and also checking to see that they have the capacity right there for it. A lot of us don't have the capacity at work, or if we're just getting out of class or something, or, you know, maybe we need to set up a time later on. Can we go to dinner? Can we have a phone call? You know, could we talk after the kids go to bed or something like that? So maintaining those healthy boundaries, but respecting other people's boundaries, and when we notice other people's boundaries, right? And making sure it's a reciprocal exchange, like, I don't know. I mean, is it nice when your husband also opens up to you? You know you're saying, you look, I just need you to listen. Is it nice when you just listen for him?

Melissa Whitfield  27:34 
He always would.

Dr. David Pfaff  27:35 
Okay.

Melissa Whitfield  27:37 
He was the type of person who he would talk with several different people. He would talk things out. He would talk to the dog, he would talk to the neighbor, he would talk to me. He would yeah, he just.

Dr. David Pfaff  27:49 
Well. And if folks have got the capacity, and if they're open Absolutely, because we also need to be mindful of who we're going to am I, did I just meet this person? Are they just a casual acquaintance, or is this my spouse? You know, is this? Is this my ride or die, my best friend, or something like that. It needs to be reciprocal, give and take, right? So if you're asking him to listen, which is great, also being willing and open to listen for him as well, and in setting up those reciprocal close, close relationships and recognizing when we need help. I mean, it sounds like he's good about recognizing that you were recognized? Yeah, we need to recognize when we need that help and who we can go to. And it's not just anybody you know, because not all relationships are necessarily created equally. Do you all ever use like, hopeful communication? When you talk like you know, you talk about the bad and the rough but more balanced.

Melissa Whitfield  28:35 
He was, he was more religious than I am, so he would talk about things, and then he would say, I'm going to pray on it. So that was, that was his method of working it out. And then at the end of that, I would tell him, well, I think he should do this. And then he'd say, well, I'm going to do this. And then he'd come back and he said, he'd say, I wish I had listened to you.

Dr. David Pfaff  28:58 
You'll see. There you go. Yeah, yeah. So we offer some hope, offer some validation, some acceptance. You know, we want to have a balanced a balanced set in that as well. So the key, again, the key to that really, is balance. Balance. Balance. If we're going to set boundaries, respecting other people's boundaries, if we're going to give nonverbals, we're going to watch nonverbals. If we're going to give certain statements, we're going to listen for those statements. And again just be mindful and balanced in all of that.

Melissa Whitfield  29:23 
Is there anything else that you would like to add?

Dr. David Pfaff  29:25 
I'd say there's just some common themes to really be mindful there, of again, getting out of the blame, you know, blaming someone for being an energy vampire, labeling them, because that's one, labels are not good, but two, that disempowers us, because it's all about, how do I take my power back and break the cycle? See it as as as a cycle, and it's a cycle that I can learn new methods. It's an opportunity maybe, maybe part of the reason I get stuck in this cycle is because I struggle setting boundaries. Personally. I don't know about you, boundaries can be tough sometimes.

Melissa Whitfield  29:55 
Well, it's hard when you work in public relations to set boundaries for yourself.

Dr. David Pfaff  30:00 
Absolutely, absolutely. It's hard, and then you got to maintain those boundaries, and then we feel some shame, and so it's just knowing the boundaries are about my wellness and my well being. It's a superpower, and it's actually good for relationships, because what ends up happening, we start resenting the guy who's my hair stands up on the back of his neck, or other people, yeah, because we're not setting those boundaries. So it's it's understanding that it's about it's for me and it's for them. So I'd say just, just break those cycles. Keep cultivating those health healthy boundaries. Really be practicing mindfulness, my friends. I mean, that's that right there, boundaries and mindfulness and cycles. Get out of the blame game. Get out of the labels. Colin Robinson is not trying to hunt you down, and feed off your energy. It's a cyclical thing. It's a cycle.

Melissa Whitfield  30:44 
Well, thank you so much for coming on our podcast and and I feel like I owe you a co pay, but I hope you come back.

Dr. David Pfaff  30:51 
This is pro bono, okay? So I'll write it off on my taxes. How about that?

Melissa Whitfield  30:55 
Thank you.

Dr. David Pfaff  30:56 
No, it's it really has been my privilege and my honor to do this. I really do enjoy stuff like this, and so thank you for giving me the opportunity. You're doing a wonderful thing by sharing stuff like this with folks. So thank you.

Melissa Whitfield  31:07 
Well, thank you, and I hope you come back.

Dr. David Pfaff  31:09 
Yeah, I'd love to.

Melissa Whitfield  31:13 
Thanks for listening to Texas Tech Health Check. Make sure to subscribe or follow wherever you listen to podcasts. This information is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice. Always seek immediate medical advice from your physician or your healthcare provider for questions regarding your health or medical condition. Texas Tech Health Check is brought to you by Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center and produced by TR Castillo, Suzanna Cisneros, Mark Hendricks, Kay Williams, Krystal Meazell and me, Melissa Whitfield.